A Hispanic-American Who Opposes the Arizona Law
65
So Am I Racist?
So the word 'racist' has been thrown around in a different context these days. Whether its the so-called 'liberal media' that claims that it is racism that motivates the Tea Party, or its a claim by Tea Partiers that President Barack Obama is a 'reverse racist', there is now a third detonated context that has come to my attention. The recent Arizona reforms on immigration enforcement have been the front burner topic for rallies on Labor Day (May Day is the REAL Labor Day for the rest of the world, we do not celebrate it here in the U.S. because worker's solidarity is supposedly a tool of the communist infiltrators). On message boards across the rest of the United States of the Internet, one will come across comments both in opposition and in support of Arizona's measure.
From a centrists point of view, the law is questioned because of the actual feasibility and impact of profiling illegal immigrants. If an Arizona sherriff refuses to enforce the new laws, its probably because it will cause more trouble for law enforcement than its worth. Supporters of the new law cite the lack of a Federal plan to secure the southern border as a reason why some draconian measures must be taken. While that statement makes sense in a desperate economy with public benefits being stretched thin as they are, the mere possibility that any Hispanic or Latino would be pulled aside and questioned is enough for a healthy Hispanic/Latino opposition with a history of rallying for immigrant rights, workers rights and language diversity in schools to quickly organize against Arizona's law.
I'll continue with that dialogue later. What really urged me to write today is the notion that many supporters of Arizona's reforms have regarding the naturalized citizen's (what does 'naturalize' mean by the way) that have rallied to oppose the reforms. According to these critics, any Hispanic-American or Latino-American that supports the protests is 'racist'. So now we are all racist if we support or oppose a law that in practice, will undoubtedly single out one ethnic group. Those who support the law are prejudice and will be guilty of racial profiling. And now those who oppose the law are racist because they protest along their ethnic lines. Herein lies the difference: one side has a law behind them, the other does not.
Now it is easy to ask anybody about the negative impact of undocumented immigrants upon state resources and I will not debate the failed drug war here. But there must be light shed upon the fact that some racism is of state signed sealed and approved and some is just an ethnic divide which exists in a society of free thought, free association and freedom of identity. Hispanic and Latino citizens are protesting this law because it will result in many citizens of the United States be held in suspicion of being undocumented immigrants, a clear violation of the Bill of Rights. If you think that because I am Hispanic that I will always have my Driver's License on my person when I'm playing softball, football (both versions) or basketball at my neighborhood park then you are mistaken. I do not know many citizens of the United States that carry their Passport or Social Security card to work every day.
And if you think that undocumented workers do not carry Driver's Licenses and that I shouldn't worry about being pulled over and held in suspicion, then I invite you to go to traffic court to witness what our criminal justice system does about undocumented drivers...not much. I even got a traffic ticket once without presenting a license. This law is financially impractical for the criminal justice system and the state. If our state cannot even pay teachers, do you think they will be able to handle thousands and thousands of deportations and economically costly investigations into small businesses that employ undocumented immigrants?
As a citizen of the United States of America, I can associate with any group that I feel like associating with. If you believe that racial divisions do not exist and should not exist, there is 1) a group that believes that and you can associate with them or 2) you cannot simply state that I am racist because I identify ethnically with one group over another and deny that racial divisions do not exist. Most importantly, in practice the Arizona law will discriminate one example of human being from other examples of humanity, whether by language, employment, association and/or clothing. A large portion of North American political and social history does indeed maintain an example of this practice, it was called 'Slavery'. Of course your response to this statement is of disbelief and anger that I would use such as ridiculous comparison. And you are right, the Arizona law is not comparable, many African slaves would have preferred deportation to whips, ropes and chains. But there are people who compare our president to Adolf Hitler, so who's being outlandish these days (rather, who is not)?
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I am also real tired hearing about how the white man has enslaved this group or that group...give me a break! The white man did not invent slavery at all.
In Africa, tribes enslaved each other all the time. Same goes for ancient Mexico and the Aztec.
Every group and race of people have been enslaved at one time or another, so it is nothing new.
The Germanic tribes were enslaved by the Romans, but you don't hear the Germans going around and complaining how they were once slaves.
They have moved on to bigger and better things, and so should any other group that has been enslaved.
Everyone alive suffers in some way. Get used to it, that's the way it is, no one escapes it.
1) If you think any group will "get used to" suffering, no matter how ridiculous or valid the complaint is, you need to get real. People feel persecuted everywhere and sometimes as you said, they are a force to deal with. You're using a double standard in saying only "Americans" can be fired up over suffering.
2) Building a fence would be useful and yes it costs money and it costs manpower. Closing the border would do a lot of good in keeping drugs out of the country more effectively.
3)To an undocumented person (and other Hispanics/Latinos), he or she sees nothing different about a Cuban refugee escaping a 50 year old conflict (who gets citizenship and full Federal benefits and assistance) and a person who could not wait to make an immigration quota or wait 12-15 months for a work Visa (because thats how long it takes)in order to feed his/her family. For many Hispanics/Latinos, it doesn't make a difference. If you want to stop accepting refugees from one country or another over old politics then that keeps it simpler and I'm cool with whatever that entails.
3) This is unrelated to policy and is just a question that I like to ask: What is worse? An American citizen on welfare and unemployed OR an undocumented person with a job and on welfare? There is no right or wrong answer to this.
Well, I live in Arizona. And this is a very vicious debate from both sides. I have to say that I don't really agree with either of the opinions I hear being expressed. And I am white, and have four spanish speaking families as neighbors. One that is most definately comprised of some if not all illegals. I just want to say that both opinions I am hearing have strong bias. But I am not sure I want to debate the issue here. I may come back if anyone comments on this commentary. Phoenix Arizona resident in Maricopa County...Blake4d
Nuyorican21
In answer to number 3-
Yes, there is a HUGE difference between an American on welfare and an undocumented person with a job on welfare and that is...the American is here LEGALLY!
Illegal aliens just do not understand they are breaking the law!
Why are Americans so angry? Because you do not respect our laws.
Blake4d, I would appreciate your intelligent insight.
I have several Mexican-American friends who came over here the right way. They agree with me about this immigration issue. In fact, they are even more bias than I am about this.
Actually I do respect "your" laws. I only ask that we find a practical solution to the problem. Building a wall would be expensive but decently practical. Deporting those who will return the next season is not practical (and not inexpensive either).
From a criminal justice standpoint, law enforcement is having problems with implementation of this law and AZ will have to take it slow in setting the terms for "reasonable suspicion".
To remind you again, don't question my willingness to accept American laws. I've lived here my entire life, and questioning laws is one of the most American things we do every day.
First off, let me tell you that I have Mexican American friends, ( people I hired to work on the Christmas tree harvest) and they are in agreement with me that the illegal aliens need to go home and come back the right way, the way others Mexican Americans have done it in the past.
THAT is respecting the laws of America.
Questioning the law and following the law are two different things.
No matter what we talk about here, the tide is turning. Arizona is the beginning, and the other SW states will soon follow.
Once Phoenix became the kidnapping capitol of the world because of Mexican gangs, that pretty much sealed the fate of millions of illegals here, unfair as that is.
Most of the illegals are very decent, good and hardworking and we WANT them to become American citizens, we welcome them here. However, we want them to wave the American flag and speak English and make America number one in their hearts.
Taking down the American flag and stringing up the Mexican flag will not endear you to the American people, I can tell you that much.
Where in the United States Constitution does it say that people have to wave the flag and speak English. If you actually look at immigration rallies, there ARE American flags everywhere. Saying the things that you're saying does not exactly get other Hispanic-Americans on your side.
"Most of the illegals are very decent, good and hardworking and we WANT them to become American citizens."
Then let's fix the problem and stop throwing symbolic flags and banners and language rights and accusations. You're attitude is not helping the situtation.
Okay I am going to give my two cents worth on this issue, but I do not want to argue or debate. I have my opinions and that is all. So here we go kids, hang on right...
1. I believe that the day America closes its borders to immigrants of any kind (regardless of race or class or sex or religion or anything else) is the day we cease to be the one thing that no other country ever has been. An equally stratified social structure of political and social dichotomy. We are the only nation that has represntation of all the worlds races, classes and religions under one banner. All other countries are predominatly one race or cast that rules and over shadows all others under them. Look at China, Italy, all of Africa, even Jerusalem, and all of Europe. Why are these ancient cultures falling apart at the seems and needing a one world government, cause they don't cut the genetic mustard, they don't have the cultural diversity, or the knowledge that is missing cause they have no white people, no black people, no yellow people, or whatever. Racism is the ruling class of every single culture ever in history on this planet, and the experiment has gone bad to worse to a big inbred disaster.
America is the only example of anything other than evolutionary self destruction that has ever been tried.
2. We have only been in this experiment for less than 250 years. History has shown us as humans, the first hundred years of a nation you have slavery, genocide, economic collapse, and civil war. The second hundred years you have terrorism, war against other nations for resources, the family structure and poverty rise, and the oriiginal ruling class (ie king, monarch, pope, or president etc.) creates economic tyranny until the people assassinate and revolt. These two cycles always take about 200 years in all other cultures. We are just entering the next hundred year phase. Do you realize the Roman Empire lasted in two parts over 492 years, we are younger than even the Hawaii islands as far as being a culture. We are barely standing on infant legs. The next state is complete collapse of all government to be rebuild by a rise of the slave, and peasants. Like what happened with Brittania and Germany in the middle ages.
IF all goes as humans do usually , all this American government we know is due for a big bang and worse...
3. No culture lasts without at least one language change for the common people, only island and aboriginal cultures speak the original language exclusively. English is our slave tongue, its what the monarchs we left behind forced us to speak. English Spanish, I think America would be stronger if we raised all children bilingually. Look at Japan, most kids there know three langueages, and computer code by middle school. And they are doing very well in the new world economics.
4. Do we want America's legacy to be slavery of the africans, massacre and eventual extinction of the Red man, and the atom bomb?
5. If you are going to build a wall across the borderland between us and Mexico./..it has already been done. The Great Wall of China, and Red China is the polar opposite of America, does it look like that idea to keep out the Himilayan, Aryan, Russian, and 'White' Asians 8000 years ago made their culture better?
6. And one final thought, maybe we should ask the Native Americans what they think about this issue, I bet a Navajo will give some insight to the whole arguement. We have a slave caste in America to this day, not by us enslaving them ...the Red Man refuses soverignty, they refuse to become Americans.
7. Latinos are just as bigoted about their side of the issue, Whites are no better.
8.I don't have an answer but I believe these are things we needto address before building walls, haulting immigration, or any other cockeyed answers that seem to currently be on the table.
9. Plus Latin music is really cool.
10. And that is all I can think of to say.
May the debate continue.
Oh and I would vote on the Arizona Law in my state. But I am a convicted felon, and have lost my rights to vote until I pay off some about ten grand in restituion. So I can't vote for or against this thing in Arizona. Sucks to be Blake4d.
I would agree with everything you said blake4d.
Thanx. Blake4d
Hello Nuyorican,
"From a centrists point of view, the law is questioned because of the actual feasibility and impact of profiling illegal immigrants."
I think this is deceptive. I don't think you are a centrist, you are simply repeating whats been played in the media. If not, back up your claim and quote the specific area of the bill that is profiling and racist. The bill has specific provisions that an officer must have probable cause as on other citizens when making a stop. Have you read the bill? If you have an opinion without reading the bill, you can't be a centrist.
"If an Arizona sherriff refuses to enforce the new laws, its probably because it will cause more trouble for law enforcement than its worth"
It's not up to the Sheriff. The Sheriff isn't there to be a politician, the sheriff is there to enforce the laws government tells him to enforce. If the sheriff can't handle the job, there can be a new sheriff.
"Those who support the law are prejudice and will be guilty of racial profiling."
No, those that support the law are for doing things the legal way instead of under the table.
"If you think that because I am Hispanic that I will always have my Driver's License on my person when I'm playing softball, football (both versions) or basketball at my neighborhood park then you are mistaken. I do not know many citizens of the United States that carry their Passport or Social Security card to work every day."
Watch cops. If a cop can't identify a US citizen under suspicion and that citizen does not have an ID on them, the cop takes them in to be id'd if the cop can't verify who they are! All citizens are required to have their license on them when driving or not driving, not just illegals.
Yes, Blake4d, you do make a lot of sense. Your intelligence always shines through!
I agree with you about the success of America coming from a diverse blend of different cultures. It is our greatest strength.
But yes, I do have a bad attitude about some of these issues as Nuyorican21 has pointed out.
I believe there is a difference between questioning the laws ( which Ameicans do all the time) and following the laws ( which Americans also break, but which we respect, nevertheless). I still believe that if the illegal aliens want to live and work here that they should become proper American citizens.
There has to be a sensible plan in place which allows for the assimulation of new immigrants. If there are too many immigrants allowed in at one time, they don't become new citizens and we end up with a third world country living within our borders.
Blake4d, you are also right about the Native Americans having a say in this entire thing. After all, this was their country to begin with.
I wouldn't argue with a sheriff being replaced when he doesn't enforce the law, I just believe that it should be taken into consideration what police will do (regardless of morality) when writing a law. "Reasonable suspicion" is a term still yet to be defined and any law that uses such language is fated to come under scrutiny (unless its the Patriot Act but thats another topic). As AZ will come to define it then we can argue about the semantics.
But it is a misconception on carrying identification (its always a good idea of course). Yes a cop can detain a person without identifying them BUT it is when a person refuses to give a name or address. Carrying a card or form of paper I.D. is actually not required (I'm speaking in NYS but I realize it may be different in other states). Identifying oneself is required.
Last note, I definitely do not define myself as a Centrist, Leftist or Right....ist (I hate saying 'Right-winger', it just sounds weird to me). I have plenty of different opinions and I loathe both sides of the political spectrum. I may not have made that clear, I just did exactly what you said I did, bring it from what I heard in the media.
I actually am unsure what I think is the ultimate solution. I only have the opinions I expressed after giving the issue as much thought as my viewpoint allows. As an Arizonan it is really causing divisions among local citizens that is likely to effect our state for generations. It was nice to actually put my thoughts to the page and see what positive could come of it. Thanx as always, yes you may start from a heated passionate pov on many subjects. But as always you impress me with you ability to shift and see the many facets of things.
And to CB, I agree with you on one thing for sure. Lawlessness is lawless and always ends up with negative reprocutions. There needs to be a standard for anything otherwise people will just step on each other and everyone looses. Peace is not always achievable if people do not respect each other legally or equally.
What a mess this issue is...
But if people like ourselves hammer out the possibilities, someway of solution will eventually be found, that I have faith Americans are capable of. Keep on Hubbing my fellow Americans. Blake4d
hubbers
case closed
THE OATH OF OFFICE:
"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States."
We The People demand that our elected officials enforce the laws of the US.
President Lincolns once said '' to remain silent is to be a coward ''
the law is clear.
The Constitution is the foundation of our government. Each and every public official including President Barak Obama took an oath of office to defend the constitution and the laws of the land. Public officials in Washington continually remind us that '' We Are A Nation Of The Rule Of Law''.
President Barak Obama, Attorney General Holder and each and every member of Congress ARE GUILTY of aiding and abetting the law breaking illegal aliens who have entered our country without the proper papers.
America wake up, it's time for our government to close the border, stop the catch and release program and enforce the laws with imprisonment according to the law.
PS There is an empty prison in Illinois for starters.
Section 274 felonies under the federal Immigration and Nationality Act, INA 274A(a)(1)(A):
A person (including a group of persons, business, organization, or local government) commits a federal felony when she or he:
assists an alien s/he should reasonably know is illegally in the U.S. or who lacks employment authorization, by transporting, sheltering, or assisting him or her to obtain employment, or
encourages that alien to remain in the U.S. by referring him or her to an employer or by acting as employer or agent for an employer in any
US Constitution, Article II, Section 1
CATCH AND RELEASE IS NOT THE ANSWER, IT DON'T WORK
TO :magnoliazz: the border fence is an idiotic idea to the extreme based on cost-benefit analysis only. WTF? The perverse logic of that idea is self- evidently stupid, and is only used for political kabuki during elections to stir up uninformed voters.
Magnoliazz: I believe that you are being too harsh....idk if you look at the news on television but do you see those poor HUMANS starving? Do you see them with no jobs and trying to support their families? " what dont they get about being Illegal?" Once you have a family you can never give up ! you cannot be weak! They try to survive and fight for their families...Dont think its all easy for them and a fun thing to do...they have people to feed and its people like you that dont even look at them as human. But you people DEHUMANIZE !
magnoliazz Level 2 Commenter 2 years ago
We could solve all kinds of problems if the USA would get serious about a decent border fence! Just like Hadrian's wall, buit by the Romans to keep the barbarians out, a decent border fence would do that and so much more.
I would love to be the engineer of such a boder wall/fence.
First, it would be more than a fence, it would be a 25 foot cement wall topped with barbed wire.
The entire thing would be electrified so that no sane person would want to go near it.
Last, but not least, there would be zero gaps.
Not just the fence would be electrified but the entire ground and water around it would also be sizzling!
if anyone complains about how much money this would cost, just remember how much money we are now paying because of all the illegals on American soil. I think it is something like 22 million dollars a day, but that seems kind of low to me.
What the illegal aliens do not understand is the word "Illegal". They just don't get it, we have laws that are in force for the common good of all.
This is just the beginning, the American people are a force to be reckoned with once they get stirred up, and they are stirred up.
Once we get things back to normal, legal immigrants would be welcome. However, the way things are going now, things are going to get ugly, because people are fed up!